Rwanda 500 Francs Pick 13b

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Hi everyone,
 

I'd like to ask you a question regarding this banknote that I recently bought .


As you can see from the picture below, there are 2 versions of the Rwanda 500 Francs:

1- Pick 13a series A and B with watermark       (impala head)
2- Pick 13b series C and D without watermark (impala head)

 

 

 

The banknote I bought is the 13b serie C, the one without watermark:

 


but for some reason it has the watermark on it as you can see on the next image:

 

 

 

Does anybody knows what's going on with this banknote?

Any explenation is really appreciated!

 

Thank you

Luca

 

There are a couple of possibilities for your note to have a watermark.

1. It could be a split prefix that was ignored by Pick or an unreported variety. (There still are discoveries to be made.)

2. Some watermarked paper may have slipped in when the transition was made to series C watermark free paper. 

3. It could be fake or altered. 
 

Finding another note with a serial number close to yours would provide a lot of clues. 
 

For now, you made a good observation. 

Thank you blue-m!

 

I don't think it's fake but there are chances it could have been altered !

 

Thank you dear

Luca

Dear blue-m,

 

I was having a look at the reverse of the image posted on Numista, it's Pick 13b (then one which is supposed to be without watermark), but it seems that it has the watermark on it!

 

 

Am I wrong?

 

Luca

Luca Wolfe

Dear blue-m,

 

I was having a look at the reverse of the image posted on Numista, it's Pick 13b (then one which is supposed to be without watermark), but it seems that it has the watermark on it!

 

 

Am I wrong?

 

Luca

I spent some time looking at different sites. First, in normal light, I think it's difficult to tell if the note has a watermark through photos. With that being said, I think it is possible that series C is a split prefix. All of the notes that seem to be listed as 13b without watermark seem to have a larger serial number than the note you have, except for one. I saw a couple of notes that are listed as 13a with watermark with series C and with serial numbers below your number. The Pick number system is full of errors, inconsistencies and omissions. Unless you can find someone, who has collected multiple examples to say one way or another, this note could be a good research project to see how many notes in series C are watermarked and unwatermarked.  I did not see any notes with series D. Another interesting twist to this is that this note is not that common. Finding enough notes for a definitive answer may not be easy. It would be good to see more examples backlit to see the watermark or not along with the serial number. I wish I had one of these in my Africa collection.

Dear blue-m,

 

I do really appreciate your effort on finding more information about this intriguing thread. 

I agree with everything you said and let me thank you one more time for spending your time doing this research for me!

 

Kind regards

Luca

6 posts, 42 views and still I had to search for the note myself. Please always add the link for others to be able to help you better …

 

N#278184

Just call me Bram

No new swaps for the moment, still too many half-ongoing swaps to clean up!

Hi BramVB,

 

I do apologize, I am a new member here and I am still learning how this forum works!

I thought the picture I posted could have been enough 😔!

 

Luca

I don't have SCWPM catalog. Does it actually state that P-13a is for series A and B and P-13b is only for Series C and D or is that something that was done by Banknote Museum only?  The Numista page does not mention it at all. 

Standard Catalog of World Paper Money - Modern Issues - 1961-Date (25th Ed., 2019):
13a - Watermark: Impala's head
13b - Without watermark
13s - As a, Specimen

rsirian1

I don't have SCWPM catalog. Does it actually state that P-13a is for series A and B and P-13b is only for Series C and D or is that something that was done by Banknote Museum only?  The Numista page does not mention it at all. 

Hi rsirian1,

 

yes, it is stated on SCWPM catalog.

Luca Wolfe

rsirian1

I don't have SCWPM catalog. Does it actually state that P-13a is for series A and B and P-13b is only for Series C and D or is that something that was done by Banknote Museum only?  The Numista page does not mention it at all. 

Hi rsirian1,

 

yes, it is stated on SCWPM catalog.

Well that's two different answers to the same question. What edition is your catalog?

 

It also looks like Bank Note Museum no longer assigns P-13a to Series A and B and P-13b to Series C and D.

I think if you have a watermark you have a P-13a regardless of the series.

rsirian1

Luca Wolfe

rsirian1

I don't have SCWPM catalog. Does it actually state that P-13a is for series A and B and P-13b is only for Series C and D or is that something that was done by Banknote Museum only?  The Numista page does not mention it at all. 

Hi rsirian1,

 

yes, it is stated on SCWPM catalog.

Well that's two different answers to the same question. What edition is your catalog?

 

It also looks like Bank Note Museum no longer assigns P-13a to Series A and B and P-13b to Series C and D.

I think if you have a watermark you have a P-13a regardless of the series.

 

Hi rsirian1,

 

my SCWPM catalogue is the last issued, edition 25th. And yes, in the catalogue is not stated that P-13a is for Series A and B and P-13b for Series C and D.

Banknote Museum instead, assigns P-13a to Series A and B and P-13b to Series C and D and this is the reason why I am getting confused!

That was my guess. When did you download that picture from Bank Note Museum?  As I showed above they no longer assign Series to 13a or 13b.

rsirian1

That was my guess. When did you download that picture from Bank Note Museum?  As I showed above they no longer assign Series to 13a or 13b.

I did it few days ago. 

Probably we're not looking at the same website because I've checked one minute ago and it seems that Banknote Museum still assigns Series to Pick-13a or Pick-13b.

This is what Banknote Museum Shows:

 

Interesting.

 

http://www.banknote.ws/COLLECTION/countries/AFR/RWA/RWA0013.htm

rsirian1

Interesting.

 

http://www.banknote.ws/COLLECTION/countries/AFR/RWA/RWA0013.htm

Interesting too!

I would say unbelivable!

How is it possible?!? 🤔

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