Help if possible. Old candle lamp found in garden [Resolvido]

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This old candle lamp was found whilst doing excavations for an extension. It measures 160 high, 70mm wide and 45mm depth.

 

A front cover opens to reveal a steel tube with a reflective surface behind and on the opened cover

 

On opening of the top cover, a candle wick is exposed.

 

When the tubed is removed and the cover (right hand side of photograph) is un-screwed, a candle is found with a spring behind the candle,  which pushed the candle forward as it is used up.

 

Photograph of the bottom. The screw, which can also be seen in the previous photograph, can be unscrewed to allow the removal of a totally used candle.

 

Now it's over to you clever people. Does anyone know where this item was used. There are no markings of any kind on the item in question.

 

Thanking you all in advance for any information.

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
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My guess is that it might be a pocket warmer, although one that uses a candle seems odd to me. My only reasoning for this is that there's not really anywhere for the light to escape, and was probably designed for heating

-Ash

Why would it have reflecting surfaces if it was just a pocket warmer. Not sure I would want a naked flame in my pocket, but I suppose it would be completely enclosed.

Still think it is some kind of lamp

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
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It is called a “dark lantern”.  In the days before electric lights, this was like a modern flash light that can be turned on and off, by opening the shutter.

One could keep the candle lit, even while one wanted to creap along unseen in the dark, because lucifer matches weren't all that easy to come by either.

 

Once again, I get to quote from Dickens - In Ch. 39 of The Pickwick Papers, Mr. Pickwick brings such a lantern along on a night time clandestine escapade with amusing results

 

It was at this stage of the undertaking that Mr. Pickwick, with many smiles and various other indications of great self-satisfaction, produced from one of his coat pockets a dark lantern, with which he had specially provided himself for the occasion, and the great mechanical beauty of which he proceeded to explain to Mr. Winkle, as they walked along, to the no small surprise of the few stragglers they met.

‘I should have been the better for something of this kind, in my last garden expedition, at night; eh, Sam?’ said Mr. Pickwick, looking good-humouredly round at his follower, who was trudging behind.

‘Wery nice things, if they’re managed properly, Sir,’ replied Mr. Weller; ‘but wen you don’t want to be seen, I think they’re more useful arter the candle’s gone out, than wen it’s alight.’

Mr. Pickwick appeared struck by Sam’s remarks, for he put the lantern into his pocket again, and they walked on in silence.

‘Down here, Sir,’ said Sam. ‘Let me lead the way. This is the lane, Sir.’

Down the lane they went, and dark enough it was. Mr. Pickwick brought out the lantern, once or twice, as they groped their way along, and threw a very brilliant little tunnel of light before them, about a foot in diameter. It was very pretty to look at, but seemed to have the effect of rendering surrounding objects rather darker than before.

At length they arrived at the large stone. Here Sam recommended his master and Mr. Winkle to seat themselves, while he reconnoitred, and ascertained whether Mary was yet in waiting.

After an absence of five or ten minutes, Sam returned to say that the gate was opened, and all quiet. Following him with stealthy tread, Mr. Pickwick and Mr. Winkle soon found themselves in the garden. Here everybody said, ‘Hush!’ a good many times; and that being done, no one seemed to have any very distinct apprehension of what was to be done next.

‘Is Miss Allen in the garden yet, Mary?’ inquired Mr. Winkle, much agitated.

‘I don’t know, sir,’ replied the pretty housemaid. ‘The best thing to be done, sir, will be for Mr. Weller to give you a hoist up into the tree, and perhaps Mr. Pickwick will have the goodness to see that nobody comes up the lane, while I watch at the other end of the garden. Goodness gracious, what’s that?’

‘That ‘ere blessed lantern ‘ull be the death on us all,’ exclaimed Sam peevishly. ‘Take care wot you’re a-doin’ on, sir; you’re a-sendin’ a blaze o’ light, right into the back parlour winder.’

‘Dear me!’ said Mr. Pickwick, turning hastily aside, ‘I didn’t mean to do that.’

‘Now, it’s in the next house, sir,’ remonstrated Sam.

‘Bless my heart!’ exclaimed Mr. Pickwick, turning round again.

‘Now, it’s in the stable, and they’ll think the place is afire,’ said Sam. ‘Shut it up, sir, can’t you?’

‘It’s the most extraordinary lantern I ever met with, in all my life!’ exclaimed Mr. Pickwick, greatly bewildered by the effects he had so unintentionally produced. ‘I never saw such a powerful reflector.’

‘It’ll be vun too powerful for us, if you keep blazin’ avay in that manner, sir,’ replied Sam, as Mr. Pickwick, after various unsuccessful efforts, managed to close the slide…"

etc etc.

edit to add: complete e-text of that memorable work of Dickens

Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac

Any genie in it?

Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com

Sadly no. Rubbed it, but only took the rust off the outside

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

Have you tried a GOOGLE search using pictures to get an exact match of what it is?

No I have not. Never even thought of it. Not the cleverest computer user, but will have a go over this weekend.

If you want to try, please feel free to take any of the photos

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

Hi mate.

the lamp is a faithful copy of an imitation of a lamp found in the Greek colony in Italy, "Amalfi", I bought it as a souvenir.

https://cs.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paestum

 

It is burnt clay, a container into which olive oil was poured and a wick lit from the side (and maybe it wasn't there? - I don't know)

 

The lamp is a copy, the olive oil is genuine "virgin", and the coins are randomly selected genuine from a junkyard of unidentified old Greek coins from a box where there are still many - many pieces

 

I didn't want to steal your thread, I just wanted to spice it up as the ancestors needed to shine.  We'll need it in the caves again in a little while.

So just a sample of what was used to light before our era -500, -600BC

Ivan

My lamp is metal not clay and if you look at the photographs I added, you will see it looks nothing like the one you added.

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

COINMAN1

My lamp is metal not clay and if you look at the photographs I added, you will see it looks nothing like the one you added.

I apologized in advance, I just wanted to point out everything that was lit up in the past.  Sorry.

Ivan

Ahoj.

         As an apology, I am also attaching help: however, this is only my opinion.    *I think it's more like a hand warmer in a trench in a war.  Maybe an air heater in animal stables.

         Around that time, lamps for horse-drawn carriages or bicycles and elsewhere looked like this:Candle lamps

I think the lamp I have may need further investigation to ascertain its exact purpose. I shall try the Google search and see what happens.

If I get any answers, I will add it to this forum page.

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

Did you not read my dark lantern post with contemporary citation of Britain’s greatest author?

Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac

Yes I did, and with real interest,  but if someone also comes up with a suggestion, I like to investigate it.

Trying to find:- date and other things, so do not want to close any doors

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

I did a Google search using my photographs, and it did not show anything like the object I have other than the link to this forum page.

This happened with each photograph-Link to Numista page, but with hundreds of other lamps, but not the one I have.

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

I really don't see how it would make a good light source if the candle is within the tube. Have you tried putting a fresh candle in there and seeing how it works?

-Ash

Update:-

I could not buy a candle to fit the existing tube, so I trimmed some of the wax, giving me around a 5mm length of wick, and as you can see, the wick is lit but lamp is lying down, although, the main tube has been pulled back, so as to expose the flame to the back reflecting plate and the cover reflecting plate.

 

Side view of lamp whilst lying on its back

 

Purely a side view for interest only

 

View looking from the bottom towards the top

 

This is a view of our utility room at 6.00pm tonight, looking at our back door with no electric lights on. Lamp not light

 

This is the same view, with my camera on the same setting with no electric lights on,  a minute or so later. Lamp lit and again, held vertically.

I was quite impressed when I saw the difference

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

Hi

 

Just a little background and historical info (including a picture of a “pocket dark lantern”)  on this page:

 

https://darklanterntales.wordpress.com/what-is-a-dark-lantern/

 

Perhaps it helps.

 

Regards

Pecuniae imperare oportet, non servire

That was a great read and I really enjoyed reading it.

It is a real shame that the dark lantern I have is not mentioned anywhere

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

After weeks of investigating this lamp, I am no wiser as to its actual use or date.

So, thanks for all of your replies. It was great to read them all

 

Geoff (coinman1)

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
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Compare to this candle holder.

 

 

And this one:

The top one is a WW1 British Canadian medical corps officers trench candle holder. It was used with the doors opened and the top of the candle about halfway down.  After using it all folds up for easy carrying to the next place where it will be needed.  The bottom is I believe a different version of the same.

Wow. The bottom photograph is very close. Is it yours? If so, do you have any idea of a date and use.

Like the other candle lamp too, but the bottom photograph is so close, and the closest match so far.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Geoff

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

See my edit above.  Neither are mine. The bottom is just a picture on the home page here. I couldn't find the article about it. The top one is being sold here.

Many thanks for your brilliant information. I am going to send photographs to the museum tomorrow morning as I have no football to referee, and see what they have to say.

 

I now believe, with the information you included in the forum page, that a trench torch from WW1 is the possible best name for the item in question.

 

Many, many thanks again

 

Geoff

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

You're welcome. The funny thing is that back in November I did a Google image search with absolutely nothing even remotely similar then forgot about it until you posted today. This image gave those two hits immediately.

 

I did a search, but got loads of lamps and other things, but nothing like you have found. Was there any written information that came with the photograph?

 

Seems my request has moved further forward in a few hours than in the previous many weeks

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

I put the link to the page in my second post. As I said there just a picture on the home page. Not an easy site to search on but maybe you can find more info if you took some time to search.

 

You should drive to that museum.

I live near Bath in Somerset, in the south west of England, so Manchester is a long way away.

I will try contacting them via email tomorrow and report back to this forum page of any reply I receive.

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

Just checked to see where you are, since you are in the UK, you could be in an area with a very long continual occupation. Your lamp looks like the late 19th or early 20th century and was probably discarded when electricity arrived.

 

What era is your home from, is it modern, post WW2, or older like Victorian/Edwardian or do you live in an old character home that could be medieval. I just find it fascinating, as its archaeological. How deep was the lantern found out. Did it appear to be deliberately discarded. Was it found with other items (Like a cesspit from the days before rubbish collection).

 

My guess is the latest it was discarded was during WW2, when there were blackouts and hiding in Anderson shelters, but it could have been discarded earlier. The wick surround looks factory made and if its a steel construction, straight away I know its Industrial Revolution or later (Post 1800), rather than like some medieval or 17th century type thing.

 

Finally I felt you were a bit harsh with Mimael, his post was quite delightful.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

The house was built in the early 1960's. The lamp was found just below the surface and without any other objects close by. In fact, nothing else was found during the renovation.

I still believe it to be a WW1 candle lamp. The lamp is of metal construction.

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1

I contacted the museum over a week ago, and they have finally replied, but, due to the fact that the item I contacted them about, was not actually in their collection, they were unable to make any comment on the questions I asked.

Therefore, I  will now close this forum item, but I am going to state, that in my final opinion, along will other information from replies from some of you out in the wider world, that the item is a World War 1 trench candle lamp.

I thank you all for all of your replies

I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1
Status alterado para Resolvido (COINMAN1, 23 Fev 2025, 18:59)

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