Netherlands East Indies - obverse or reverse? [SOLVED] [Resolvido]

Hello all,

The Netherlands East Indies catalogue is currently in a bit of state with regards to obverses and reverses. Essentially, this is because of the coins themselves - both sides seem to better fit the definition of a reverse, each in a different language - see two inconsistently-oriented examples below:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces7254.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces6243.html

Which way around should they be?

The Indonesian side could be the obverse, for these reasons:

• Consistency with those later pieces featuring the monarch: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces36509.html
  
• The date & denomination (typical reverse characteristics) are given in the "ruling" language and alphabet on the other side
  
• Coats of Arms of monarchies tend to feature on reverses - it is those of republics that become obverses
  
• The denomination on the Dutch side suggests that this isn't entirely a common side throughout the series
  
• Comparison with the Franco-Arab coins: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces11227.html
  
• Not all coins of the time feature the CoA: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces5519.html; this one certainly looks wrong like this
  

The Dutch sides have these going for them as the obverse:

• Consistency with the earlier currency, e.g.: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces39612.html (or maybe this should be reviewed too)
  
• Most of the text on the Indonesian side changes with denomination - it is certainly not a common design
  
• The Coat of Arms symbolises the nation/monarchy, perhaps in lieu of a portrait
  
• Chinese cash coins of the Qing dynasty perhaps comparably have a common language on the obverse with the emperor's name in Manchu on the reverse
  

As a Briton, with CoA's always on the reverses of UK coins, I certainly prefer the former way around - what are your thoughts? With no referee, who is really responsible for the choice?

The face bearing the name or insignia of the issuer is the obverse.

Coats of Arms of monarchies tend to feature on reverses - it is those of republics that become obverses

that is generally not correct, just when the other side bears the rulers bust or name that is the case.

here also the side with the Coat of arms will be the obverse.

I was just quoting from the new Numista catalogue guidelines.

Yes that is correct, good to have guidlines

I'd go with Dutch side for two reasons: 1) The coat of arms is they symbol of the issuer. 2) Consistency with KM.

(We shouldn't follow KM when they are wrong, but for judgement calls where KM is consistent it is easier for collectors, researchers, buyers, and sellers to have all references make the same decision.)

Citação: "bjherbison"​I'd go with Dutch side for two reasons: 1) The coat of arms is they symbol of the issuer. 2) Consistency with KM.
​
​(We shouldn't follow KM when they are wrong, but for judgement calls where KM is consistent it is easier for collectors, researchers, buyers, and sellers to have all references make the same decision.)

​Yes, this seems to be keeping to the guidelines, despite my misgivings. It seems rather an omission that the name of the issuer takes priority over the monarch - can't imagine collectors of old New Zealand coins would be too happy were the rules applied strictly to those.

So what should we do with those that feature this obverse design, and the monarch? The guidelines, and consistency with the prior coins, suggest the Queen should be on the reverse - but this is clearly not right compared to Dutch coins. So the monarch should be the obverse whenever present, and we live with the inconsistency?

I've submitted all the relevant requests. We can call this solved, or at least better.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.