I wanted to add a few early Frankfurt coins and couldn't find out if they should go into the Holy Roman Empire or under the City of Frankfurt as a German State. The tip of the iceberg were these duplicate entries (of different years) in each of the two issuers.
Maybe we can have some input from those knowledgeable on the history of these places in that era.
The same question pertains to some other places including the Imperial Cities in the Low Countries in the 16th-17th centuries (Deventer, Kampen, Zwolle, etc.). For now we have these places in their countries rather than HRE, but the coins are analagous to the German issues you have mentioned.
While I have no definitive answer, these cases are hard to assign.
HRE rulers had limited powers, and cities were independent basically. Was it emperor's coinage in Frankfurt? Was Frankfurt forced to mint coins with emperor's name? Was Frankfurt just minting its own coins and adding emperors on the reverse? These are hard questions to answer.
As I opened Frankfurt, there seem to be great number of these issues - all look the same/similar and for me, this would point to it being a city coinage.
I lack knowkedge but imo if those issues with emperor name were usable throughout the HRE they should not be attached to where they were minted.
And this, even if local types exist (like local thematics). It would be like if in France we attached Brittany types or Dauphiné types to those areas instead of France imho
We should be careful with the notion of where the coins are “usable”. Euro coins is one example.
Gold and silver coins of the Latin Union is another example: You could use a French 20 Francs in Italy, but we still assign the coin to the issuer France. Yet another example is Athenian owl tetradrachms, which were widely used in Middle East.
I believe the right question to ask is who are the primary intended users of these coins. Are they primarily intended for the people and merchants of Frankfurt, or more generally to answer a coinage need in the HRE?
This question is related to another one: who decided the production of the coins? If it's a decision of the city's government, the coins are probably intended for local needs. If it's a decision of the emperor, the coins are probably intended for HRE needs.
I'm not sure whether we can easily get such information though…
I believe the right question to ask is who are the primary intended users of these coins. Are they primarily intended for the people and merchants of Frankfurt, or more generally to answer a coinage need in the HRE?
This question is related to another one: who decided the production of the coins? If it's a decision of the city's government, the coins are probably intended for local needs. If it's a decision of the emperor, the coins are probably intended for HRE needs.
I'm not sure whether we can easily get such information though…
I'm not really convinced.
I think most medieval issues where “intended” primarily for local use. For instance we identify carolingian mints often by locations of hoards (archeology shows that coins circulate but are concentrated around their mint) and local powers had minting right even if had to comply with royal rules and types.
Same with Brittany or Dauphiné issues in France.
This logic would lead again to divide everything by mints or regions and diminish issuers prevalence imho. I prefer indicating in titles the mint in parenthesis than to create a bunch of issuers for imperial or royal local mints.
I’d personally want them to be put under Frankfurt since that is where they were minted and distributed there. There is a lot of gold “trade coinage” for 1500-date as Krause puts it made but they still on Krause get segregated into the different places that issued them. That is just my honest opinion.
It is not only mints that are different, but the use of local devices (local coats of arms, local saints, etc.).
If there were empire-wide standards for the coinage (weight/fineness), maybe the use of the emperor's name is only done to reinforce that the coins are struck to these standards?
Just a short description here but it shows there were some coins minted by the Royal mint and then later in the 1500‘s the city started minting coins under their own identity.
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
When you look in the Swis HMZ catalogue the Goldgulden of Basel as an example are distinctly differentiated between Goldgulden minted by the Royal/Imperial mint and then at a later date Goldgulden minted by the city.
showing it either by the name on the coin with moneta civitas or with the coat of arms.
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
Just a short description here but it shows there were some coins minted by the Royal mint and then later in the 1500‘s the city started minting coins under their own identity.
to me the coin saying coinage of Frankfurt in the legend so that seems to be a city issue.
probably best to see in the JuF catalogue what it says there.
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
I discussed this topic further with the admins. A coin saying “Frankfurt” is not enough to make it a free city issue. We should not mix the concepts of mint and issuer.
As the exact level of autonomy of the local power in relation to the imperial power can be difficult to determine and is often debatable, a more simple rule would be to rely on what is visible on the coin: if the coin has a portrait, coat of arms or legend related to the imperial power, we should consider it is an imperial issue, even if the name of the city which minted the coin is also represented in the legend or the design.
See for example:
N#60876 is struck in Harat (obverse legend) and the issuer is Iran (obverse legend).
N#339765 is struck in Melle (reverse legend) and the issuer is the Carolingian Empire (obverse legend and reverse monogram).
N#8526 is struck in Dauphiné (obverse coat of arms) and the issuer is France (obverse legend)
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
Status alterado para Feito(Compendium, 20 Jun 2024, 23:11)
