Uncatalogeud Low country or belgian silver blanc ABB DISE IIIII CHRISTIA D G

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Hi everyone,

I'm trying to identify this medieval coin.

Metal: Silver
Weight: 4.4 g
Diameter: 30 mm

Obverse: BB DISE LIILIL CARISTI D G

Reverse: PROTECTOR VIT E ME DR rampant lion

 

 

Thank you in advance for your opinions and suggestions regarding this coin. 🙏

This has similar design and size, but the lettering is different: N#434619

Hi

 

I will try to imagine if it is not CHRISTI D G (grace of christ) instead of CARISTI D G (caristi deus gracia). The man it is a clearly a priest (hair cut as a monk) with the ecclesial robe.

 

Best regards

I thought it is some kind of Lion's Thaler but the banner holding one looks more like a Bologna one.

The old bald guy and ABB for maybe abbot lead me to religious stuff i.e. Papal States.

N#78516 that was the most similar in design (but not legend)

 

Mabye some ruling abbot instead of a pope?

 

ABB DISE IIIII CHRISTIA[na] D[ei] G[ratia] | (Abbot Bla Bla the 5th)… Christian by the Grace of God 

D[omi]N[u]S PROTECTOR VITAE MEAE | God is the protector of my life

 

Maybe not a coin but more like a religious token/medal.

Idolenz

I thought it is some kind of Lion's Thaler but the banner holding one looks more like a Bologna one.

The old bald guy and ABB for maybe abbot lead me to religious stuff i.e. Papal States.

N#78516 that was the most similar in design (but not legend)

 

Mabye some ruling abbot instead of a pope?

 

ABB DISE IIIII CHRISTIA[na] D[ei] G[ratia] | (Abbot Bla Bla the 5th)… Christian by the Grace of God 

D[omi]N[u]S PROTECTOR VITAE MEAE | God is the protector of my life

 

Maybe not a coin but more like a religious token/medal.

Hi, 

 

Thanks. For me it clear it is something like a religious token. I bought this coin with another german coins so I will look forward in german states. I am little bit affraid if the papal states are very large numismatic domain in early german states you have a huge domain to explore.

 

Strange for a token this must have circulate a lot

 

Best regards

Idolenz

I thought it is some kind of Lion's Thaler but the banner holding one looks more like a Bologna one.

The old bald guy and ABB for maybe abbot lead me to religious stuff i.e. Papal States.

N#78516 that was the most similar in design (but not legend)

 

Mabye some ruling abbot instead of a pope?

 

ABB DISE IIIII CHRISTIA[na] D[ei] G[ratia] | (Abbot Bla Bla the 5th)… Christian by the Grace of God 

D[omi]N[u]S PROTECTOR VITAE MEAE | God is the protector of my life

 

Maybe not a coin but more like a religious token/medal.

One ideea can be 

CHRISTO(phorus) D(ei) G(ratia) ABB(as) DI S(tavelot) ET (Prum)???  for Christophe Manderscheid 

 

62.

Christophe de Manderscheidt

1546–1576

Prince-Abbé de Stavelot-Malmedy et de Prüm

 

Two similar coins 

 

N#452057

 

N#374904

 

I keep searching!!

It s highly unlikely to be a Papal States coin, which always have BONONIA … on the lion side (usually BONONIA MATER STUDIORUM reflecting their famous university).

 

The bust is clearly a pope as on the Bologna coin (the imitations refer to Saint Peter who was the first pope), but the imagery on both sides has been expropriated to several other places, as we have seen.  In Italy Frinco, Guastalla and other places.  In Low Countries Batenburg and Vianen.

 

I  believe it was intended to be circulated as a coin, not a medal or token, because the devices all imitate a known coin type.  

I  believe at this point the possibilities are:

- an uncataloged Low Countries coin, or a coin that was cataloged but that we just can't find.  As mentioned on the other thread, the reverse legend was used by William IV of Bergh but the main reference for this place (van der Chijs) does not have this type.  But there were so many small principalities striking coins that some types are still being discovered.

- a contemporary counterfeit.  

 

Concerning a linkage to German States … eventually the Abby of Stavelot (Stablo in German) came under the administration of the Archbishop of Cologne.  So it would not be surprisng to see a Stavelot coin show up in a German lot.  

Or as you have seen for Mandersheid, the abbeys of Stavelot and of Prum were often administered together. 

Hi, 

 

Thanks for answer. 

 

I am for the first version:  of uncataloged low country coin or not find yet coin. Maybe releted with Christophe Manderscheid and Stravot abbey.

 

 

For the contemporary counterfeit  maybe but I don't understand if you can counterfeit a coin why you don't falsify a popular type as a very popular Papal States blanco. And afterall the coin material it is good quality silver and the weight it similar at 4,4 grams.

 

I keep searching!!

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