Personal classifications of coins

I have recently had a request for a swap, the other swapper had marked a few of his coins up as RARE with mintages in their Millions, and I'm talking 30 - 50 million. Asked why he/she regarded them as rare, I was informed well you don't have them in your collection do you. Then decided to cancel the swop. Are some people just trying to take advantage of the novice collector or what !!!!!!!!!

Totally I had this with a French member not long ago !

I have a RARE 2006 L Canada cent, mintage 1,261,883,000, approx. value $5 - $10.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces19977.html

I'll take it!  But only if you let me give you $20 for it!!

Citação: glorkar I'll take it!  But only if you let me give you $20 for it!!

... oh alright, fine, but you pay the registered shipping.

Citação: tony_k_1965Are some people just trying to take advantage of the novice collector or what !!!!!!!!!

Yes.

I have a total of 5,015 coins to exchange, it was over 6,500 but I'm thinning the ranks. Out of that entire number only ONE coin is genuinely rare. It just sneaks into the URS at R20 with a mintage of 358,000.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1132.html

Here's the funny part and one of the main obstacles to Numista being taken seriously - there are several hundred coins with mintages in the millions which don't even qualify as scarce which are cataloged as "rare", "very rare"  or "extremely rare". Not in the personal comments field, but these were entered into the database that way.

The genuinely rare coin above isn't cataloged as rare!

I just don't deal with people who misrepresnt their common coins as rare, there are enough honest people around so why bother. If their scarcity is being misrepresented how can you trust the grades.... have the coins been polished, drilled or painted?

It must be confusing for the many people who stop by to get a value for a single coin. Imagine the excitement when a supposedly credible website informs you that it's "rare" and when you try to sell it as a rare coin the buyer laughs in your face.

You see it on Ebay too.  People listing ordinary everyday coins as "rare"

Citação: neilithicYou see it on Ebay too.  People listing ordinary everyday coins as "rare"

It drives up the wall when I see this on eBay.  There was a seller a couple of months ago who would list a 1902 Perth sovereign with a ton of hype and the title statement "Rarest of the King Edward VII sovereigns!" And even though nothing could be further from the truth, customers would bid the price to nearly $1000 dollars for the coin.  $1,000!!!  And then they'd repeat the trick with another 1902P the next week!
You could easily pick one up every other week or so for $410-$440 at the time, not to mention that stating that this was the rarest is an outright lie (that honor, if my memory serves me correct, goes to the 1908 Ottawa Mint, which have a mintage of just under 650 and can fetch over $15,000 when they come to auction in decent condition.  Perth, by way of comparison, had over 4,200,000 struck in 1902.)
I know that we all have to make a buck but lying to people about what they're purchasing has always struck me as especially immoral.   
But I reckon PT Barnum would have a good chuckle over this.

Citação: neilithicYou see it on Ebay too.  People listing ordinary everyday coins as "rare"

I noticed that too... I always check up on that but it's funny when a German 2 euro commemorative with an 8 mil mintage is listed as RARE!!

I have grown to hate and despise the word Rare, even when I am looking at something legitimately described as Rare; I have an irrational thought pop into my head telling me the vendor can't be trusted. I have decided to stop looking at coins on eBay to try and counter this.

The interesting thing is though what do the average Numista members consider to be rare?

Citação: Walder CoinsI have grown to hate and despise the word Rare, even when I am looking at something legitimately described as Rare; I have an irrational thought pop into my head telling me the vendor can't be trusted. I have decided to stop looking at coins on eBay to try and counter this.

The interesting thing is though what do the average Numista members consider to be rare?

We've had this discussion on another thread "what's your lowest mintage coin"  some consider nothing with a mintage over 200 coins to be rare.  But since most coins have mintages over 1 million, I consider anything that numbers it's mintages in the thousands or 10s of thousands to be reasonably rare.

Phil suggested adopting the universal rarity scale https://en.numista.com/forum/topic10957.html

I have hesitations about that because then you get items like proofs and sets that are made for collectors and all go straight into collections.  Although most of them have mintages of only a few thousand, they are pretty easy to get hold of.  On the other hand, a circulating coin with a mintage of only a few thousand is much harder to come across.

Citação: neilithicI have hesitations about that because then you get items like proofs and sets that are made for collectors and all go straight into collections.  Although most of them have mintages of only a few thousand, they are pretty easy to get hold of.  On the other hand, a circulating coin with a mintage of only a few thousand is much harder to come across.

That's one of the reasons why proof coins should have a separate listing.

I think what people frequently misunderstand or misuse are two terms:

Rarity and Value

and for God's sake Numista helps people to get even more confused with the rarity index, which I trust is a total nonsense.

Take an example: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces33125.html
this coin was minted from 997 to 1038, it is VERY valuable, but not RARE at all, indeed it is readily available, just like your morning croissant.
It has been minted in the millions, as silver was readily available 1000 years ago from where it comes from, where and when it has been minted, and today you can find find it in every serious coinshop or internet site.
It costs however around USD 260, as it is valuable!

It is a valuable and collectible coin though, because it is the first Hungarian coin, and every proud Hungarian wants to have it in their drawer or pocket or ....

On the contrary, this coin: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces41792.html is RARE with a mintage of 4000, but it is very unlikely that now or ever, it will reach the value significantly over the gold content.
Why? Because nobody cares about Pella...

Indeed, there is no study or evidence that justifies any correlation between the [real] rarity of a coin and the value of it.

P.S. I value this thread: "Phil suggested adopting the universal rarity scale
 https://en.numista.com/forum/topic10957.html "

Totally agree.  It's the desirabilty.  Like the Australian 1930 penny.  It is a rare coin, and valuable, the current valuation is something like $50,000.  There is however an Australain coin that has a lower mintage but sells for a fraction of this cost.  Why? Because the 1930 penny has the history, the mystery and thus the desirability.