What's your definition of "Uncirculated"?

I always thought that uncirculated meant exactly that, not circulated, something like this (from ebay)


So this made me chuckle a little when the description said "uncirculated"


I appreciate that uncirculated coins can have one or two bag marks, but I've seen less beat up metal detector finds.

Here in the Netherlands UNC Dutch coins are really bad, mostly minor damage or spots, but you get them UNC in the bag from the mint.

MS-60 or better.

Uncirculated ought not to be taken too literally. Quite apart from the silliness of the Sheldon Scale where you have uncirculated coins posing as really uncirculated, really really uncirculated and uncirculated grande!

Many people assume it means a coin in pristine condition and while this may be true for a 2014 coin straight from a String roll, a coin from 1814 or even 1914 is going to be a very different "uncirculated".

Quality standards at many mints, especially in the third world, mean carbon spots on copper, chatter and chafing on larger coin are commonly seen on coin which are by the definition of the purists, uncirculated. You could find better examples in the register at your local Walmart.

If I had a time machine I would go back, attend the meeting where some well meaning idiot first proposed the term "uncirculated" to describe a coin in better than EF condition and pimpslap him. Ultimate Fine would have been a lot better, a lot less confusing and more in keeping with the rest of the European descriptive grading.

Too late now of course, the genie can't be put back into the bottle. My only advice would be don't be too rigid and think in terms of "having the appearance of an uncirculated coin" rather than one untouched by human hands.

I like that Ultimate Fine...have you coined that Phil?

It is an interesting grade and I am sure many of my XF coins are UNC but you just don't want the hassle of being told otherwise. I guess it is all in the detail and as we know from experience some people's worn coins are UNC! They just haven't been out of a drawer for 15 years!

"coined that"..... very droll. But you can use it just because of that beautiful baby you brought into the world.

I think if someone is so intent on arguing the point over a couple of those nasty sheldon points or whether a coin can only be uncirculated if it comes from a mint roll..... I'd be inclined to tell them to **** off and take the stick from their rectum. Who needs it? It's a hobby which gives me a great deal of pleasure not an exercise in forensics.

There are plenty of decent, down to earth people to swap with, let the drama queens and secret agent wannabees play with each other in their own special corner.

Many on ebay seem term uncirculated as "anything shiny" no matter if it's really uncirculated, or heavily circulated and then dipped in acid to make it look shiny.

The polished coins always make me chuckle on eBaY. You just think why are these over priced?

Citação: bam777The polished coins always make me chuckle on eBaY. You just think why are these over priced?

A lot of coins on eBay make me chuckle...but I guess someone buys those polished things right?

Citação: cncote10

Citação: bam777The polished coins always make me chuckle on eBaY. You just think why are these over priced?

A lot of coins on eBay make me chuckle...but I guess someone buys those polished things right?

They certainly do. When I first started selling I bought some quite nice bronze coins which also had with them some discrasefully polished coins. To my amazement guess which I sold first.

People in the antiques trade always say quality sells, this is also true for junk!

Before anybody makes assumptions they were fairly priced and described.

Citação: Walder CoinsBefore any body makes assumptions they were fairly priced and described.

I wasn't going to ask about that.  I was however going to ask about your disgraceful spelling of "disgraceful"  

Uncirculated: Absolutely no signs of wear, and at least a good bit of lustre left (or lack of darkening). Has never passed through human hands aside from possibly putting in a holder (by someone who knows better than to touch the coin). Just so we're clear, this doesn't mean a cashier takes it from a roll and gives it back in change. That circumstance makes the coin AU. (Something which has frustrated me before, believe me!!)

If the uncirculated coin is rather old, I would expect the engravings to be crystal clear, still many signs of lustre, and still NO signs of wear.

Uncirculated doesn't mean "I took it from a roll and then left it rotting in my basement for 30 years". Uncirculated is also about the quality of the coin. Both things are necessary for a coin to be considered UNC by any standard.

As a final point, the coin MUST NOT be polished or chemically cleaned!!! If it is not UNC in a natural state, I don't want anything to do with it.


I adhere to this definition firmly. Because UNC is supposed to be the best of the best (the MS/PL/PF grades), and anything less than this definition is in no way the best of the best.

To me this one is UNC the frield is good


  even with the extra metal on the back  error

 Were this one is VF to lower end XF due to frield scatches


 I think people dont look at the frield of the coin,enough
          yours daryl

I disagree, If you sent that one to be graded it would probably come back as MS details.  VF and XF indicate wear to the design and there is no signs of wear on the designs at all.

 neilithic i see the frield of the coin part of the design. Thats why gradeing is to each there own

Citação: neilithic

Citação: Walder CoinsBefore any body makes assumptions they were fairly priced and described.

I wasn't going to ask about that.  I was however going to ask about your disgraceful spelling of "disgraceful"  

I now my spelling is bod. But hay I'm disleptic.  

I know my spelling bad, and i think its from be lazy When it comes to writtting

Does this count i have had it from the 1970's So it has not ciricalated for at least 40 years

may be i should open an ebay account

Citação: ALLRED1950Does this count i have had it from the 1970's So it has not ciricalated for at least 40 years

Ooh! Shiny.
So if it hasn't been in circulation for over 40 years, then surely that makes it almost uncirculated?

Oh yes BizzoDoes i have 2 rolls of them with no date. My grandfather gave me in the early 1970's. He tolk me silver is silver.What do you think i can get for these shiny almost uncirculated coins.

Citação: pnightingaleI think if someone is so intent on arguing the point over a couple of those nasty sheldon points or whether a coin can only be uncirculated if it comes from a mint roll..... I'd be inclined to tell them to **** off and take the stick from their rectum. Who needs it? It's a hobby which gives me a great deal of pleasure not an exercise in forensics.

Wise words...And I agree wholeheartedly.

What does it matter what some self-appointed anal snob describes a coin as? All that matters is whether or not YOU like it, and if you do, and you are happy with the price the seller is asking, then buy it!

Within this thread people have mentioned "over priced", again, this is a silly concept. If you have spent ten years seeking a particular year of a coin you will probably be prepared to pay quite a lot for it, on the other hand, if you are a casual collector of UK 50ps (and there are a lot of such collectors) then you will be happy not to buy them at all, but simply wait and see if they ever turn up in your change.

It's a personal matter.

But getting back to the condition, grading, and eBay, this is where it pays to buy in person. You can see and handle the goods, and decide if it is right for you at the price being asked. Rather than trusting to a photograph.

Matt

PS
Catalogues are pure BS. Please don't try quoting "catalogue prices" at me or any other seller of coins, they are no more valid in numismatics than they are in the second-hand car or antiques fields.

Citação: Matt_ProbertIt's a personal matter.

Agreed.

I've been collecting for a couple of years now. The 50p's have always interested me, and the Olympic 50p's tipped me over the edge enough for me to buy an album and start collecting circulating change, then it snowballed to all UK decimal, then UK pre-decimal, and over the past year or so I've collected a large number of world coins (large by my reckoning anyway).

I know that uncirculated coins are beautiful objects, but I just don't have the spare money to spend to get them. But even some of the battered old coins I've been given are beautiful in their own way, they have history, they've passed through thousands of hands and have travelled thousands of miles to finally come to rest with me.

In fact, I'm very proud of my recent purchase, a 1680 Irish Half Penny. It's a bit battered and a bit scratched, but the date is still clear, and Charles II is still looking dashing although a little flat. But it is now my oldest coin, not worth a lot, but didn't cost a lot (first bid won, 1p). Over 330 years old, who can imagine how many times it's changed hands, what it's paid for, how many wars it's been through, or where it's travelled to?

This coin, to me, is a thing of beauty, despite its lack of Sheldon points and it will take pride of place in my collection.

So yes, it's a personal matter.

Citação: Matt_ProbertCatalogues are pure BS. Please don't try quoting "catalogue prices" at me or any other seller of coins, they are no more valid in numismatics than they are in the second-hand car or antiques fields.

I wouldnt go that far Matt. I think they are best used as a guide not as an exact price. I personaly try to judge the coin on its own merrits not just its grade. I look at the catalogue value as a grid reference the price should be within that region. Some times more sometimes less. I am well aware that they can be horrifically wrong but you tend to find the norrower the field of the book the better its accuracy.

Struggled to find the right thread to put this in, but here goes...

I'm not sure I agree with the seller's grade here!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1870-Gothic-Florin-Die-Number-8-/232116810166?hash=item360b3d71b6:g:IywAAOSwLF1YBOOs

EDIT:

Same seller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1885-Gothic-Florin-/232116811676?hash=item360b3d779c:g:0oIAAOSwzaJYBOR0

Hi! Could someone please explain what: "Special Uncirculated" means regarding coins? I've spent an half an hour on this, trying to find a definition, but so far, without an answer. I'll continue, hoping that some clued-up person will beat me to it. Thanks, AY

 I finally found my answer!

 I was trying to work out the grade of a coin in one of the Franklin Mint's ‘Coins of the World’ series. The one with a coin, envelope, and stamp. Not the sets. Specifically, a Bahamas 1979 25-cent piece that I thought looked proof. Then I just now found this, which explains everything:

 “However, this isn't a proof, but a proof-like coin, or Special Uncirculated to use the Franklin Mint's terminology.”  

 

(Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/an-unlisted-fm-coin-hiding-in-plain-sight-the-1979-fm-u-bahamas-25-cents.389445/)

For modern issues, I take it at a very literal definition: It has not been circulated.

 

I tend to follow the Royal Mint's general rule. They strike three qualities of coin; circulation, brilliant uncirculated ("BU"), and proof. I consider bullion issues as “BU”, and piedforts as proof as they're essentially struck the same way just in precious metals. Each of these three qualities can then be sub-divided into the more typical poor to pristine grading scale.

 

Circulation quality: Struck once & quickly. RM reckons ~750 coins per minute can be struck

Brilliant Uncirculated quality: Usually struck only once at a slower pace; dies often polished between coins. RM reckons ~300 coins per minute
Proof quality: Often struck more than once; dies always polished between strikes. RM reckons 50-100 coins per minute

 

Anything struck for circulation, no matter how flawless it may be, is a circulated coin. A flawless circulation coin cannot change it's original striking method & intended purpose. It can never be uncirculated.

For older coins struck before BU/Proof was really a thing, I would translate uncirculated to be a “Very Fine” or above circulation coin. I.e. a near perfect example of the coin with only the smallest imperfections allowed.

 

LINK: royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/starting-with-the-finish-proof-coins/

If you're trying to imagine it in a different way, picture cars. If you say cars only come as “standard” or “Luxury” options. The most perfect example of a standard everyday car (Let's say a 1970's Ford Fiesta) still isn't a luxury vehicle. It'll never be a luxury vehicle. Same applies with coins.
Not the best example I grant you, there's like a hundred different sub-divisions of cars, not just two. But it works well enough.

Uncirculated means that - no circulation known. The coin must have no wear at all (At least to naked eye). Some AU pieces may slide past - but VF looking ones - heck no. it's amazing what I have seen some people pass off as Uncirculated.

 

However an UNC piece is not necessarily perfect and not always easy to pick. Coins, especially large ones like Crowns and Half Dollars can have contact marks, dings, bumps and all sorts of minor defects. After all most coins are minted in bulk and only proof set and some other set pieces are struck with individual care. The UNC Crown, Dollar, 50 cent piece, 2 Euro coin whatever was likely struck with hundreds or thousands of others at the same time. MS60 is UNC and in American circles quite undesirable compared to MS63 and up.

 

FDC is perfect, MS70 is perfect, UNC is just a coin with no wear and likely never circulated, some may have briefly, like when you get a fresh coin out of change.

 

Also many coins can have a weak strike, which could be interpreted as wear. Most coins in Precious metals or that are pre machine made will have this issue along with ones with elaborate details like shields, crowns, lions, heraldic devices etc (UK coins please stand up).

 

Uncirculated - but not perfect (Notice noise and pitting on fields)

 

A more acceptable UNC coin with the cartwheel lustre you find on them, note detailed strike, this may be choice UNC

 

UNC, but dings and bumps make it far from perfect.

 

 

Barely Uncirculated, but very grubby and stained coin, also top star on rev is flattish indicating a weak strike and various spots and dings on this crown, stored poorly in a warm humid climate. It never circulated, but was never stored well. The kings cheek also looks like a poor strike or shadow (Its not wear - way too much sharp detail for this to be AU - look at the hair detail).

In fact the really stingy and retentive types would grade this coin EF or AU because of the stains and poor strike.

I would hope mint state gradable but the mints don't always play by those rules when they describe it as such :)

Finally, this concept of MS60, 70 etc - that is the American Sheldon scale, that is only really used in the USA and to a lesser extent Canada and some other Latin American countries. It has almost no relevance like slabbing either in the British and European worlds.

 

The scales don't even match. Sheldon F12 is like British very Fair, VF20 is Fine or a bit better, VF35 = British VF, XF40 - still VF, AU50 is still high VF, AU55/58 - Is British EF (Looks UNC, but closeup will reveal light rubbing) and even MS60 - 62 is still good EF UK

 

Australians and Kiwis use a system similar to Britain, but we add some more precision to lower and higher grades. For British Fair, which is Good, we insert the grade VG for near Fine/very Fair UK and above UNC, we add Choice, and Gem which equate to MS63 and 65 and sometimes add Superb for MS67. Britts only have UNC and then FDC and we grade Proofs too, many pre 1970s proof sets like mine have obviously toning and discolouring because they were made decades ago and the atmosphere is different over time and place.

 

  

Very heavy toning - yet no one except the really a@#**y retentive people who think coins can only be good EF would dispute this coin being Uncirculated, but its hardly shiny and blingy like a new proof coin set from say 2022!

 

We also grade copper/Bronze as standard UNC (Can not be that lustrous but no wear to some lustre), and BU = Brilliant Uncirculated, a coin with full glistening red/pink/brown lustre. With NZ pennies a BU coin often has 50% premium over a standard UNC one.

 

BU because of its lustre (Although patch at 3 oclock and spot at 10 oclock would detract slightly.

 

UNC only as the lack of lustre keeps it from being BU

I like the Sheldon scale, I think a 1 to 100 scale would be too difficult to differentiate the grades but 70 hits all the main things you are looking at when grading a coin. Unfortunately like with everything involving humans, it can be inconsistent but doesn't mean it should be something people shy away from.