I would even get rid of the coin part and call them numismatic products 😅
Your first box (like anything in life) is more complicated then it seems. What is understood by released into circulation.
Do you only acknowledge coins from banks, or do you also acknowledge post offices (or banks) where you can get a coin that has the same specs as the normal circulation coins (or not) at face value?
That's the old definition I followed on Numista if you don't pay a premium it's not a numismatic product (yes, it has flaws with modern coin schemes like the 20 for 20 irredeemables).
Numismatic Products is the colnect approach. Technically if you do not pay a premium its a circulating commemorative though it may not circulate like the coloured bullion coins Uruguay. Gibraltar calls its twenty pounds as circulating commemorative coins but the treasury charges a 5 pound premium .
It's just a way to get more money from the tourists & help the local economy.
Not sure if the private mints actually are authorised and pay royalty. The Nauru government tourist official at Expo 2020 was not aware of the recent Nauru issues. As I said some of the private mints fake authority letters and the letters gave a signature but no designation or name or stamp of the country. A private mint sent a semi-legal notice to a coin blogger after he wrote my comments about the Somali coins being fantasies with a scan of the so called letter of authorisation. I replied to the private mint on his behalf asking for the designation and stamp and telling I will press forgery charges and since then the private mint has not bothered to reply or dare contest my charges
Maybe Ucoin has the right approach. There's Circulation Coins, Commemorative Coins (which circulate) and there's Collector Coins (everything else).
That's not far from what we have. We just have the last category named “Non-circulating coins” instead of “Collector coins”.
We also have a category named “Collector coins”, but that's for a very specific case (1000 coins), for items that fall in-between “coins” and “fantasy coins”.
I was suggesting this:
It's obvious I and so far no one else have the perfect solution that will please everybody but also obvious that the large majority of members that have weighed in on this subject feel the current categorization of “coins” needs to be modified in some way.
Personally I think the best way to handle stuff like the Niue chicken wing is a specific “novelty” designation with a “you know it when you see it” criteria.
Using strictly defined categories based on circulating status and like the works fine for most coins, but these are not like most coins. As A Collector pointed out with his 50 pence example, the current categories end up placing novelty coins in the exact same categorization as more conventional “coin-y” coins, which, though technically accurate, also just feels very incongruous because it’s plain to see these are two very, very different objects.
To pull out a metaphor from biology, by cladistic analysis, a canary is technically a fish, but that doesn’t mean you would put a a canary in an aquarium like you would a “fishy fish”
The chicken wing is technically a coin, but if you tried to buy something with it the cashier is gonna look at you like you have a second head growing out of your neck.
Due to the variety of forms that these novelty items take, there’s no way to create a set of attributes that only these have and no “coin-y” coins have, and it should just be left to the discretion of moderators where the novelty line lies, since in my opinion, it’s hard to define, but easy to see.
Sargon - I do genuinely agree with you that the novelty coins ("pseudo") should be obvious. However, the problem with leaving it at the discretion of the individual moderators is that they can have different opinions on exactly where the line lies.
Sure the obviously insane stuff, but there will be some middle ground stuff which could fall either way on the whim of the moderator. If we can establish at least some best working practises (or better, definitive rules) then at least the catalogue will be consistent across nations.
=====
I do like the basic: “Did it circulate? (Yes = coin, No = not-coin)” approach.
But then it lumps in all the reasonable non-circulation coins, all the established bullion, the precious metal proofs of “proper” coins, and all the insane “products” together.
We've already got a more advanced catalogue, and we might as well make the best use of it.
I don't think there's an easy answer here which could be universally applied for everyone equally.
I do like the basic: “Did it circulate? (Yes = coin, No = not-coin)” approach.
But then it lumps in all the reasonable non-circulation coins, all the established bullion, the precious metal proofs of “proper” coins, and all the insane “products” together.
Sometimes you have to throw the baby out with the bath water. 😁
I do like the basic: “Did it circulate? (Yes = coin, No = not-coin)” approach.
But then it lumps in all the reasonable non-circulation coins, all the established bullion, the precious metal proofs of “proper” coins, and all the insane “products” together.
I see this as a feature, not a bug. These were never coins or intended to be used as coins. They're just bullion produced to raise some money for a government, private mint, or both.
Clearly, a circulating coin is a means of payment in circulation for goods and services. If you can't pay with this coin at the grocery store, then it's not a circulating coin of that country.
All coins that are not legal tender in a given state and in circulation among people should be in exonumia.
This also applies to vouchers and pleb tokens for services, special stamps, revenue stamps, certificates and bank guarantees on metal objects resembling the shape of a coin.
The dolphin of Olbia was a circulating coin in its time, it was issued as a form of currency and could be used in the market.
I still couldn't find an official document describing the Niue Dollar, but the Niue Bank Act mentions a “Niue currency” separately from the “New Zealand currency”.
This is enough for me to conclude that these coins are denominated in Niue Dollar, until I get a proof of the contrary. The Niue dollar is used only for non-circulating coins, so they fall into our current definition of “collector coins”, similarly to Andorra Diner.
Therefore I re-categorized all Niue coins as “collector coins”.
I still couldn't find an official document describing the Niue Dollar, but the Niue Bank Act mentions a “Niue currency” separately from the “New Zealand currency”.
This volume also includes the Consumption Act which I quoted early in the thread about the fact that payments cannot be made in collector coins. Search the whole Volume 3 for “currency”; there should be 20 results in all, most of them from the Consumption Act.
EDIT 2 —
In Volume 1, search “currency”. The terms “currency of Niue” and “Niue currency” are used to mean “the currency in force in Niue”, i.e. the NZ dollar. It remains unclear whether this applies equally to their NCLT but I would say “yes” since Niue's LT is the NZ dollar. But it is unclear since Niue doesn't seem to have its own Currency Act, so far as I can tell. If anyone could find such a document (probably quite short if it exists) please let us know!!
My opinion is that this Niue is fantasy coinage and should be very separated from regular coinage. There is something to the, “can you spend it?”
Yes-coin. No-not a coin.
I see the fear that the silver maple leaf could be stuck with the chicken wing, but that is preferable to the chicken wing showing up next to the 1914 farthing!
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
In some countries such as Canada, collector coins as categorized by Some_Nerd can actually be redeemed at the Mint. I'd be interested to know whether this is also true in other countries.
The donut “coin” and the two other objects would be collector coins if they were issued by states recognized by the UN.
If the Cameroonian government redeems them or accepts them as payment, then they would be non-circulating coins. The trouble with all of these small/poor African and Oceanian countries is that most Western consumers will never visit and ask the local government about the status of these coins.
Master Coin Referee
Coin referee for CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN, and SLV.
Revisor principal de monedas
Revisor de Numista para monedas de CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN y SLV.
In some countries such as Canada, collector coins as categorized by Some_Nerd can actually be redeemed at the Mint. I'd be interested to know whether this is also true in other countries.
The donut “coin” and the two other objects would be collector coins if they were issued by states recognized by the UN.
1. If the mint accepts the coin, then I think that would be equivalent to redemption by a central bank or government.
2. The above items would only be collector coins if they were officially issued and were not redeemable by the issuing nation.
Master Coin Referee
Coin referee for CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN, and SLV.
Revisor principal de monedas
Revisor de Numista para monedas de CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN y SLV.
The donut “coin” and the two other objects would be collector coins if they were issued by states recognized by the UN.
Please explain this statement.
This is based on Some_Nerd's definitions which always include official / unofficial. If a state is recognized by the UN and issues coins of any sort under its authority to issue currency, then it's an official issue.
In some countries such as Canada, collector coins as categorized by Some_Nerd can actually be redeemed at the Mint. I'd be interested to know whether this is also true in other countries.
The donut “coin” and the two other objects would be collector coins if they were issued by states recognized by the UN.
1. If the mint accepts the coin, then I think that would be equivalent to redemption by a central bank or government.
2. The above items would only be collector coins if they were officially issued and were not redeemable by the issuing nation.
I think the division will turn out to be very arbitrary, because Canada will end up with no collector coins while other states that produce the same sort of coins but don't have this clause in their legislation (i.e. redeemability at the Mint or national Bank) will have loads of them. Most collectors will have no idea what's going on.
For the most part, redeemability at the Mint remains a legal figment for such coins with very very few exceptions (such as the $20/$20 series when the price of silver went down about 15 years ago).
But for the basics I agree with the categories — especially that you put circulating standard and commems on the same line.
rsirian1
OK. So how do you know they cannot be cannot be spent/redeemed?
That's exactly the problem, and the only way to know is to look at the legislation of each country. But I don't think this is something useful on a site like Numista. Basically, redeemable or not, with few exceptions, we recognize a coin that is not meant to circulate when we see one.
If the Cameroonian government redeems them or accepts them as payment, then they would be non-circulating coins. The trouble with all of these small/poor African and Oceanian countries is that most Western consumers will never visit and ask the local government about the status of these coins.
I threw in a ringer. The last coin is from France. N#368362 I don't want others to think I'm just picking on Niue Cameroon.
Brismike - Yes you could, but you would have to be really dumb or super poor, as 50c is worth very little now.
As for countries - I understand most are bone poor French African republiques or Pacific speck Islands and no doubt some smaller Caribbean Islands like St. something arather or Grenada, Dominica (The British Island not the Hispanic country). Yet no one so far has got bent out of shape over novelty coins from rich 1st world countries (Except me over Australian bubblegum and Brismike got very annoyed).
And then the generic silver rounds like ones with skulls, near porno girls, Donald Trump coins and dogecoin - that silly dog with the staring eye, fake bitcoins made out of muck metal etc.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Yet no one so far has got bent out of shape over novelty coins from rich 1st world countries (Except me over Australian bubblegum and Brismike got very annoyed).
Have you missed my posts getting “bent out of shape” over the French coins? Is France not a rich 1st world country?
They are non-circulating coins. The fact that some mints are more ‘creative’ than what many people enjoy to collect doesn't matter much in my opinion. As we've seen above, everyone has a different scope for their collection: only circulating coins, only coins that look like circulating coins, only normal shape coins, or just any coin — some people found that the Rubik's coin above was cool. I don't think it makes sense to over-complexify the categories.
Camerinvs
Basically, redeemable or not, with few exceptions, we recognize a coin that is not meant to circulate when we see one.
It's actually quite complex. This thread contains many extreme examples. It's clear that Donut coins are not meant to be spent at the supermarket. But there is really a continuous gradation between regular circulating coins and these extreme examples. We need fixed written rules if we want to achieve some consistency.
I didn't see any proposal of new definition reaching even a partial consensus in the messages above. So for the moment I prefer to keep the current definitions.
Yet no one so far has got bent out of shape over novelty coins from rich 1st world countries (Except me over Australian bubblegum and Brismike got very annoyed).
Have you missed my posts getting “bent out of shape” over the French coins? Is France not a rich 1st world country?
Probably, as my eyes glaze over at blobs of text with no paragraphing and I pretty much ignored many posts. But I mainly saw the words Niue, rubbish, pseudo and a lot of right wing indignation over a free market tenet (Self defeating prophecy).
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
They are non-circulating coins. The fact that some mints are more ‘creative’ than what many people enjoy to collect doesn't matter much in my opinion. As we've seen above, everyone has a different scope for their collection: only circulating coins, only coins that look like circulating coins, only normal shape coins, or just any coin — some people found that the Rubik's coin above was cool. I don't think it makes sense to over-complexify the categories.
Camerinvs
Basically, redeemable or not, with few exceptions, we recognize a coin that is not meant to circulate when we see one.
It's actually quite complex. This thread contains many extreme examples. It's clear that Donut coins are not meant to be spent at the supermarket. But there is really a continuous gradation between regular circulating coins and these extreme examples. We need fixed written rules if we want to achieve some consistency.
This is my point and I've discussed examples of this over the years on this website, including the 1892/93 Columbian halves, the US presidential dollars, the NZ standard coins issued only in sets in many if not most years, such as this one, the first of the seven 1973-76 Olympic Canadian sets, the Canadian gold pennies, cartoon coins, etc.
It's complex in terms of the legislation of each country and I'm sure no-one wants to go too far down that rabbit hole. I have actually collected a lot of material on this. In some cases, such as in the Canadian and European legislations, there are provisions about which denominations can be or can't be issued as NCLT. In Canada, it takes the form of a schedule appended to the Currency Act which lists the denominations issued as NCLT, but it is less restrictive than the post-2010 European legislation. The European legislation is the most transparent I've seen so far about what is circulating/NC legal tender and what denominations can or can't be issued for Europe vs. only the issuing country. So yes, it's quite complex.
It has happened that the RCM issued a new denomination ($350) that wasn't in the schedule. It took 5-6 years for someone to realize that (!) and for an amendment to be submitted and adopted.
Lastly, as currently defined, I would prefer a term such as “souvenir coin” rather than “collector coin” because many or even most “non-circulating coins” are also meant for collectors (year sets, circulating types in proof and other finishes, many non-circulating denominations, etc.) — just a suggestion.
Yet no one so far has got bent out of shape over novelty coins from rich 1st world countries (Except me over Australian bubblegum and Brismike got very annoyed).
Have you missed my posts getting “bent out of shape” over the French coins? Is France not a rich 1st world country?
Probably, as my eyes glaze over at blobs of text with no paragraphing and I pretty much ignored many posts. But I mainly saw the words Niue, rubbish, pseudo and a lot of right wing indignation over a free market tenet (Self defeating prophecy).
And here I thought it was just because they didn't fit your “always picking on me and the defenseless island natives” narrative. BTW the posts I was referring to contained barely one paragraph, mostly pictures and the last one was so close to your last rant the only way you could have missed it is if you only remember posts that support your agenda. Also you didn't add your favorite bubblegum coin term. Also I'm pretty much as far from a right winger as you can get.
Yet no one so far has got bent out of shape over novelty coins from rich 1st world countries (Except me over Australian bubblegum and Brismike got very annoyed).
Have you missed my posts getting “bent out of shape” over the French coins? Is France not a rich 1st world country?
Probably, as my eyes glaze over at blobs of text with no paragraphing and I pretty much ignored many posts. But I mainly saw the words Niue, rubbish, pseudo and a lot of right wing indignation over a free market tenet (Self defeating prophecy).
You really don’t have to make things political out of nowhere like that. It’s kind of antagonistic and derails the thread topic, which is coins, not right wing-left wing whateverings. The cigar is just a cigar, Freud.
They are non-circulating coins. The fact that some mints are more ‘creative’ than what many people enjoy to collect doesn't matter much in my opinion. As we've seen above, everyone has a different scope for their collection: only circulating coins, only coins that look like circulating coins, only normal shape coins, or just any coin — some people found that the Rubik's coin above was cool. I don't think it makes sense to over-complexify the categories.
Camerinvs
Basically, redeemable or not, with few exceptions, we recognize a coin that is not meant to circulate when we see one.
It's actually quite complex. This thread contains many extreme examples. It's clear that Donut coins are not meant to be spent at the supermarket. But there is really a continuous gradation between regular circulating coins and these extreme examples. We need fixed written rules if we want to achieve some consistency.
This is my point and I've discussed examples of this over the years on this website, including the 1892/93 Columbian halves, the US presidential dollars, the NZ standard coins issued only in sets in many if not most years, such as this one, the first of the seven 1973-76 Olympic Canadian sets, the Canadian gold pennies, cartoon coins, etc.
It's complex in terms of the legislation of each country and I'm sure no-one wants to go too far down that rabbit hole. I have actually collected a lot of material on this. In some cases, such as in the Canadian and European legislations, there are provisions about which denominations can be or can't be issued as NCLT. In Canada, it takes the form of a schedule appended to the Currency Act which lists the denominations issued as NCLT, but it is less restrictive than the post-2010 European legislation. The European legislation is the most transparent I've seen so far about what is circulating/NC legal tender and what denominations can or can't be issued for Europe vs. only the issuing country. So yes, it's quite complex.
It has happened that the RCM issued a new denomination ($350) that wasn't in the schedule. It took 5-6 years for someone to realize that (!) and for an amendment to be submitted and adopted.
Lastly, as currently defined, I would prefer a term such as “souvenir coin” rather than “collector coin” because many or even most “non-circulating coins” are also meant for collectors (year sets, circulating types in proof and other finishes, many non-circulating denominations, etc.) — just a suggestion.
I completely agree with your suggestion, the term “souvenir coin” could be better
They are non-circulating coins. The fact that some mints are more ‘creative’ than what many people enjoy to collect doesn't matter much in my opinion. As we've seen above, everyone has a different scope for their collection: only circulating coins, only coins that look like circulating coins, only normal shape coins, or just any coin — some people found that the Rubik's coin above was cool. I don't think it makes sense to over-complexify the categories.
Camerinvs
Basically, redeemable or not, with few exceptions, we recognize a coin that is not meant to circulate when we see one.
It's actually quite complex. This thread contains many extreme examples. It's clear that Donut coins are not meant to be spent at the supermarket. But there is really a continuous gradation between regular circulating coins and these extreme examples. We need fixed written rules if we want to achieve some consistency.
This is my point and I've discussed examples of this over the years on this website, including the 1892/93 Columbian halves, the US presidential dollars, the NZ standard coins issued only in sets in many if not most years, such as this one, the first of the seven 1973-76 Olympic Canadian sets, the Canadian gold pennies, cartoon coins, etc.
It's complex in terms of the legislation of each country and I'm sure no-one wants to go too far down that rabbit hole. I have actually collected a lot of material on this. In some cases, such as in the Canadian and European legislations, there are provisions about which denominations can be or can't be issued as NCLT. In Canada, it takes the form of a schedule appended to the Currency Act which lists the denominations issued as NCLT, but it is less restrictive than the post-2010 European legislation. The European legislation is the most transparent I've seen so far about what is circulating/NC legal tender and what denominations can or can't be issued for Europe vs. only the issuing country. So yes, it's quite complex.
It has happened that the RCM issued a new denomination ($350) that wasn't in the schedule. It took 5-6 years for someone to realize that (!) and for an amendment to be submitted and adopted.
Lastly, as currently defined, I would prefer a term such as “souvenir coin” rather than “collector coin” because many or even most “non-circulating coins” are also meant for collectors (year sets, circulating types in proof and other finishes, many non-circulating denominations, etc.) — just a suggestion.
I completely agree with your suggestion, the term “souvenir coin” could be better
Indian Mint issues souvenir coins which have no denomination .
Collector coin: Officially issued, cannot be spent/redeemed
Fantasy coin: Non-officially issued, cannot be spent/redeemed
Non Circulating coin and Collector coins are both under standard classification of NCLT. Why do we want to divide them an create confusion?
A collectors coin which can not be redeemed there are only 2 issues i- Montenegro Perpera coins of2002/ 2006 etc which are officially issued as jubilee or commemorative coins but can not be redeemed. THe other case is Cocos Islands 2023 issues which were officially authorized by SHire Council but had the wording mentioning theyare not legal tender.
Hence collector coins should only have these 2 coins and if any such issues exist which can not be redeemed (other than it becoming demonetised). The rest should be NCLT and fantasies. Niue coins are very much NCLT coinage
I kind of agree, as any commemorative released into change is a standard coin. But if that coin is a limited release coin (Like Aussie $2 having mintages of 1 or 2 million and a few thousands for privy markes) and ebay scammers and shillers manage to get quantities of them sold at mark up prices, we should have a category that calls them special coins or limited release coins.
A true commemorative circulating piece, should be common enough at least in one type - that no one wants to shill bags of 20 of them for 3x face value on the bay or any other online auction site.
Aussie mints thrown themselves in a grey area, by limited releases of these coins, varietials like mintmarks and selling complete sets over face value and stuff like “I in every 10 tubes has the coloured coin” etc and selling a coin with a C on it for 10 x Face. That to me is more gambling/loot box stuff than coin collecting. Same with releases through supermarkets etc.
Australian commems have been sailing hard and fast towards the wind for way too long. For once I agree with BC.
My latest sending of $2 bubblegum coins was missing that and 2 or 3 others, because they have become too hard or the Feebayers are getting them all first and when the coins do drop - people scoop them all up. The mint should be applying free and fair distribution of each commem (Whether 50c, $1 or $2) and stopping the rotten eggs who are selling bags of 20 or whatever to feebayers and the others, when the limit is like 2 per person. Its like online ticket sellers, where pre sales to card and club members before the public and when scalpers buy up all the Taylor Swift/BTS tickets etc and then Joe Public can't buy them, because they are on Viagogo within seconds.
This Viagogo/Ticketek style coin marketing needs to stop.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Magandang umaga from the Philippines. While I agree of moving all Niuean coins and other countries that do not have a sovereign currency to “collector coins”, I think the so-called “non-circulating” Cameroon coins should be recategorised as “collector coins” even though most of these are denominated in CFA Francs.
I want to call people that all of the non-circulating coins that are not related to the culture or history of the country should be recategorised as “collector coins”. But coins related to the nation’s history in CFA francs should remain as “non-circulating coins”.
Salamat po.
Ang numismatika ay libangan ng pag-aaral ng barya at perang papel.
Numismatics is the hobby on studying coins and banknotes
Numismatik adalah hiburan pelajaran uang logam dan uang kertas.
Magandang umaga from the Philippines. While I agree of moving all Niuean coins and other countries that do not have a sovereign currency to “collector coins”, I think the so-called “non-circulating” Cameroon coins should be recategorised as “collector coins” even though most of these are denominated in CFA Francs.
I want to call people that all of the non-circulating coins that are not related to the culture or history of the country should be recategorised as “collector coins”. But coins related to the nation’s history in CFA francs should remain as “non-circulating coins”.
Salamat po.
This is the example of one of non-circulating coins issued in my country aside from silver and gold ones or proof / BU sets.
Yes, it has an American flag aside from my country’s flag, but there have been times that my country’s central bank even issued some of the foreign figures like Ronald Reagan, Pope John Paul II, and Pope Francis for example; but they actually visited to the Philippines than just being a clout by the central bank.
In the Philippines, the central bank never issued any Christmas coins yet even though we have our own Christmas tradition.
Ang numismatika ay libangan ng pag-aaral ng barya at perang papel.
Numismatics is the hobby on studying coins and banknotes
Numismatik adalah hiburan pelajaran uang logam dan uang kertas.
Belgium and Australia are the examples of having non-circulating pop-culture or cartoon themed coins that were minted legally and not from the private mints. Yes, I agree that all of the coins with denominations that were issued for certain counties but actually minted in private mints (especially Power Coins) should be recatgorised as “collector coins” or “collector tokens”.
Ang numismatika ay libangan ng pag-aaral ng barya at perang papel.
Numismatics is the hobby on studying coins and banknotes
Numismatik adalah hiburan pelajaran uang logam dan uang kertas.
Belgium and Australia are the examples of having non-circulating pop-culture or cartoon themed coins that were minted legally and not from the private mints. Yes, I agree that all of the coins with denominations that were issued for certain counties but actually minted in private mints (especially Power Coins) should be recatgorised as “collector coins” or “collector tokens”.
I feel we are creating too many categories and its confusing. Non circulating legal tender (NCLT) coins of all countries whether Niue or India or Australia should all be categorized as NCLT coins. Coins which are not legal tender as tokens.However Official issues which do not have legal tender status like Montenegro issues should be souvenir coins. Most of the African CFA coins from private mints are not officially authorised including all issues of Burkina Faso hence these should be categorized as fantasies or exonumia. If Any of the private mint coins actually have a genuine authority of the government ( eg the German mint behind some recent Somalia issues had a fake letter of authorisation) then only the shuld be classified as NCLT.
These categories confuse me as they are different from standard numismatic categories as in various catalogs , Everyone may not be intelligent enough to understand the differences mentioned in the link. The standard is circulating coins, commemorative circulating, Patterns, Fantasies/ exonumia , and NCLT. Any coin which is a collector coin will be an NCLT or a exonumia . Would recommend to keep things simple as they were earlier. Even referees are confused now as patterns are put in circulating coins ( eg in Iraq) and NCLT in commemorative circulating. Better have lesser and simpler categories. That is my opinion. Every one is entitled to their own but for me this is confusing.
These categories confuse me as they are different from standard numismatic categories as in various catalogs , Everyone may not be intelligent enough to understand the differences mentioned in the link. The standard is circulating coins, commemorative circulating, Patterns, Fantasies/ exonumia , and NCLT. Any coin which is a collector coin will be an NCLT or a exonumia . Would recommend to keep things simple as they were earlier. Even referees are confused now as patterns are put in circulating coins ( eg in Iraq) and NCLT in commemorative circulating. Better have lesser and simpler categories. That is my opinion. Every one is entitled to their own but for me this is confusing.
I agree with @shamikb . The catalog categorization should be less messy, and be the standard system of organization.
The reorganization was done in full view of anyone that cared to help structure and define it. It was supported (in votes) by ⅔ of those that voted. Not a great majority but it's a done deal. Improvements can and should be suggested in the Numista website forum.
Better, but I appreciate we can choose the first two boxes in the search only, that eliminate all the garbage.
I do understand two types of NCLT though as well.
1. NCLT that is relevant to the country making it or a global event that includes the country like for NZ, coins showing Kiwi and our participation in WW2, Aussie Kangaroos, Childrens TV or another sports team ending in “roos”. Usually developed, civilised and known countries with a reputation to uphold. Often the minting or at least issuing programme is in control of that country.
2. NCLT that is not relevant to the country like a Marilyn Monroe coin from Guyana, Elvise from Tuvalu and coins showing donuts and fried chicken from Niue and Ivory Coast. Usually these countries are developing, unknown and have a poor or rubbished reputation and the issue programme is controlled by a foreign bad actor needing a place of convenience to issue their knock off Pokemon coins.
The former is okay, the latter appeals strictly to collectors.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Belgium and Australia are the examples of having non-circulating pop-culture or cartoon themed coins that were minted legally and not from the private mints. Yes, I agree that all of the coins with denominations that were issued for certain counties but actually minted in private mints (especially Power Coins) should be recatgorised as “collector coins” or “collector tokens”.
I feel we are creating too many categories and its confusing. Non circulating legal tender (NCLT) coins of all countries whether Niue or India or Australia should all be categorized as NCLT coins. Coins which are not legal tender as tokens.However Official issues which do not have legal tender status like Montenegro issues should be souvenir coins. Most of the African CFA coins from private mints are not officially authorised including all issues of Burkina Faso hence these should be categorized as fantasies or exonumia. If Any of the private mint coins actually have a genuine authority of the government ( eg the German mint behind some recent Somalia issues had a fake letter of authorisation) then only the shuld be classified as NCLT.
I agree, that type of rubbish is unknown and of no interest to anyone outside a tiny niche area. It should not be included with real coins.
Pop culture is really annoying and so it all the crypto coins and schemes which are 90% spam. I got a pop up ad selling George Droyd coins, which made fun of a man murdered by Police officers . There is no way anyone would take such a product seriously.
Plus if it helps, Burkina Faso - half of the people here would be laughing, thinking is that even a country.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Denormalise KM or Schön numbering on Niuean coins and other countries without a circulating currency but minting coins that are not relevant to the country, unless the Niuean government decided to mint their own circulating coins.
Ang numismatika ay libangan ng pag-aaral ng barya at perang papel.
Numismatics is the hobby on studying coins and banknotes
Numismatik adalah hiburan pelajaran uang logam dan uang kertas.
Denormalise KM or Schön numbering on Niuean coins and other countries without a circulating currency but minting coins that are not relevant to the country, unless the Niuean government decided to mint their own circulating coins.
If it’s in the catalog then it’s in the catalog, no sense in pretending it’s not and just not logging the numbers for these things. As much as their inclusion might irk some people, it doesn’t change that they’re there and have been given these identifiers.
Numismaster went all of 2025 without issuing a single KM number for Niue. Numista has 665 Niue coins for 2025. Numismaster has issued KM numbers or added to existing KM numbers for 3646 coins in 2025.
Maybe with the economic slow down and the backlash, the number of coins many dwindle. After all they won't keep making them if no one is buying them. Their precious metal coins are sold at massive premiums over the melt and with silver prices moving from the Ionosphere into the Exosphere, people may stop buying 3 ounce darth vader masks in silver for $1500 or so and just buy a muck metal version from some other mint for $100.
Reading some of my earlier posts in these threads, makes me feel sick, naive and offensive is how I describe them. These coins and every other dodgy NCLT junk coin made by a private mint, is just a big con. Even for those who want them, they are being screwed everyway to Sunday. All about money and no ethics at all.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Powercoin's page shows the latest high quality issues for Niue (I call the images Nupe the images as I get sick of computers telling me I have clashing image names. Nupe is actually a part of Nigeria).
Pictures enlarge
All are massively overpriced like 2 to 3x melt even at these crazy silver prices, all are ugly and irrelevant as heck.
Powercoin are like the Stamperija or Topnimarka of coins
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Powercoin's page shows the latest high quality issues for Niue (I call the images Nupe the images as I get sick of computers telling me I have clashing image names. Nupe is actually a part of Nigeria).
Perhaps the sharp rise in silver prices and the lack of immediate availability of physical silver will contribute to a reduction of all these junk issues overall in 2026-2027 or they may choose to follow Austria’s approach, which regrettably also extends to the issuance of junk monetiform medals struck in alternative materials like Cu-Ni or Nickel
Monetiform - I just learnt a new word, the Trump punisher medal by Powercoin could be one as its silver but no country would take it as its so ultra untasteful its not true.
The medal (I deleted the image, but its in a recent thread about silver) shows Trump's skull made out of guns with his hairpiece. Its up there with the maga supporters who drove massive SUV's with Trump as Rambo on US flags across their back windows.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
